Nazism in my very home

[Zigman66]

Yes, sad to say, this is what got my butt in gear to do what I should have been doing years ago. Although I may inadvertantly end up using this thread to do my ranting about this problem on a somewhat daily basis, one thing I am thinking this forum could use is an area for those of us who are parents to be able to exchange ideas, talk about problems inherant with teens and racism, and any other topics dealing with helping guide our children correctly. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[jj]

It's a good idea, but most of the folks on here aren't parents. Including you & I, I can think of a grand total of 4 forum members with kids, and mine is a long ways away from teen issues. But I still think it's a good thing to discuss  

& I could add a parenting forum just so DLJ will roll his eyes at me    

[Daryle Lamont Jenkins]

Actually, why not? If anything for this very reason.

[REDSKIN]

Just so I'm understanding the situation (it's early in the morning, so bear with me)
You're a parent who has a teen son/daughter who holds racist views/ideas/whatever and you're looking for advice on how to handle the situation or otherwise help them to see that racism is bullshit?

[Zigman66]

yes, Red, that would be correct. I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but I am by no means dumb (at least I like to think that!). However, the child in question is ultra-intelligent, and to mentally debate/battle herwith this crap is using every faculty and means that I have available to me. She is high enough in intelligence that I would consider her near dangerous in her abilities to propagate this bull-puckey. I have tried quite a few things already, including monitoring all of her internet usage, etc., but without chaining her in the basement until she is 18, I have been unable to thwart everything. I also am loathe to do so simply because restricting any and every freedom she has seems to be the only alternative but then I think it would be a case of the cure causing more of the problem. I have even gone so far as to leave pages open in a few forums that discussed why what they do is inherantly wrong, but she ends up using that as a weapon against me by taking those words and thoughts and twisting them to suit her needs and agenda.  To make things even worse, this child is 16, but there are 3 more children in the house, ages 12, 15, and 18 that are all quite intelligent as well but don't have her level in any mental debate. This makes me fear that at some point she may be able to twist enough information to make what she says plausible to them.
 Anyway, I can't believe I would be the parent out there that has problems such as this, hence the idea of a parents area. As pointed out, I do realize that there aren't many parents here but I also think it would encourage more of the people we may be looking for if we get the word out that parents have a place here as well. After all, parents were also children once, and most with their own rebellious ideas that , in hindsight, were quite silly. That experience would be quite an asset to draw from, I think.

[HubCityHaunter]

are the friends of your child also into the wp scene?

[REDSKIN]

Another thing too....what is the ethnic makeup of your area? A lot of the characters in the wp movement haven't had much if any socialization with people that arent of the same race, religion or ethnic background on friendly terms.  Either that or there was some traumatic event in the early childhood that caused them to develop such beliefs. While I believe you when you say your child is intelligent, one of the best things you may be able to do is expose your child to elements of other cultures and break down the stereotypes.

[Zigman66]

To answer Hub:
 She has only lived in this area for a little less than 2 years. She did have a hard time making decent friends and I believe it is one of the things that caused her to turn to what many lonely people turn to- the internet, where you can find people all the time that are willing to accept you as long as your willing to join or accept them. Without having made many friends here, she found a "cool" group to get with that she can not only be a part of but also gives her a venue to use her considerable intellectual resources to further a goal, even if it wasn't originally her goal. To further explain, I realize I would need to actually also get into some background here, and I haven't yet done so which is one of the reasons I am trying to see about making a parent area so that folks who are not as interested in problems with the children won't have to sit thru all this.
 Red: We do live in a predominantly white area and there hasn't been a lot of contact with a lot outside of that thru her life, but there also hasn't been a lot of prejudiced that she would have been exposed to with the exception of native americans. As I stated above, I need to fill in more background for you guys to get the full picture, but I will have to do that a smidge later. Sometimes my hands are so full, I only get a few minutes to get to this forum.    

 jj or Daryle:  Have you given any more thought to a parents area? I realize I am new here and you don't really know me yet, but even if ya decided to boot me for some reason, a parents area would still be a benefit to many.

[Nikki]

Zig...I'm a parent and have raised one family and raising another child.  I can sympathize with your dilemma, but really need to know much more before commenting further.  Up to this point, you have spoken only in generalities.  I would like to know more about the internet group that you are talking about.

[Daryle Lamont Jenkins]

 jj or Daryle:  Have you given any more thought to a parents area? I realize I am new here and you don't really know me yet, but even if ya decided to boot me for some reason, a parents area would still be a benefit to many.

Wasn't even a thought. It's up as of right now.

[Zigman66]

Thank you very much for creating the parents forum! To all who have been following this thread, I will post as many details as I can in the new forum, in order to clarify where I am at with this.
 Can this thread be moved to the new forum? Don't know if it would make a difference, but might help any new parents jumping into the arena.

[jj]

Sorry, haven't been on this forum too much lately, busy working on my site & running a big sale that's done pretty well but I am now in desparate need of sleep.

Anyway, topic is moved

[E.Nygma]

How do you feel about Dr. Phil?
He just had a segment on "House Of Hate" with quite interesting results at the end:
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/780
Gary's experience and talk with Dr. Phil at the end really opened my eyes.

Take the test-Are You a Racist?
http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/489

[ONEWORLDONEPEOPLEONEHUMAN]

yes, Red, that would be correct. I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but I am by no means dumb (at least I like to think that!). However, the child in question is ultra-intelligent, and to mentally debate/battle herwith this crap is using every faculty and means that I have available to me. She is high enough in intelligence that I would consider her near dangerous in her abilities to propagate this bull-puckey. I have tried quite a few things already, including monitoring all of her internet usage, etc., but without chaining her in the basement until she is 18, I have been unable to thwart everything. I also am loathe to do so simply because restricting any and every freedom she has seems to be the only alternative but then I think it would be a case of the cure causing more of the problem. I have even gone so far as to leave pages open in a few forums that discussed why what they do is inherantly wrong, but she ends up using that as a weapon against me by taking those words and thoughts and twisting them to suit her needs and agenda.  To make things even worse, this child is 16, but there are 3 more children in the house, ages 12, 15, and 18 that are all quite intelligent as well but don't have her level in any mental debate. This makes me fear that at some point she may be able to twist enough information to make what she says plausible to them.
 Anyway, I can't believe I would be the parent out there that has problems such as this, hence the idea of a parents area. As pointed out, I do realize that there aren't many parents here but I also think it would encourage more of the people we may be looking for if we get the word out that parents have a place here as well. After all, parents were also children once, and most with their own rebellious ideas that , in hindsight, were quite silly. That experience would be quite an asset to draw from, I think.

I think one of the things that's scary about nazis is they are often intelligent ... they then take that intelligence as a reason to believe they are better than those they perceive as stupid, which they foolishly think has something to do with race.
yet because they are intelligent, they can do more damage than your average thug ... look at those psychos in the order, they really damaged the economy with their counterfitting, and hurt I'm guessing way more people than they ever got caught for.
You might want to actually allow her her internet ... it's better than her going out and acting on her hateful beliefs. or worse, I hjave seen these scumbags and how they treat their girlfriends ... they are expected to essentially be submissive sluts to the nazis.
and by monitoring her internet without blocking it you might be able to collect lots of information that could help stop them in the long run.

[Laurie]

I seldom censor and seldom have.
I would rather be asked questions and fill the kids need to wander then stifle it.
Admittedly my girls grew up in a bi racial family and have had the advantage of meeting hundreds(if not thousands) of people from all backgrounds and some stiff biases.
With tools and openness most kids just satisfy their curiosuity in the safty of our presence.
Still it is tough to be pulled in different directions and live with all the crap multi media pumps out.
Shit my dad said the world wasn't kind to him and less kind to my generation..today the kids are hard put o find any kindness.
I think we can get them through the bumps though and end up with someone we are proud to call our family.
Patience,honesty and openness I think are key with a little pitching a bitch and foot stomping thrown in.
Laurie..proud of my kids in many ways..most of all because they firmly believe and act upon "Pay it Forward"

[The American]

I am not a parent, but I can talk as someone who got involved with White Nationalism and has managed to move forward or at least trying to make a difference in stopping it.  One thing I noticed in your post, was that she was lonely and turned to the internet to find friends.  I know that happen to me and it happens to a lot of people.  White Nationalists are good at seeking out the hurting, lost, and lonely of the world and offering them friendship, a family, and fellowship.  Much like a cult goes after the ones who are most vulerable so does White Nationalism.   White Nationalism also brainwashes people like a cult does.

Someone doesn't start out hating others, but slowly the White Nationalists fill the mind with hate and if the only info you listen to, read, etc is White Nationalist material than over time you come to believe the lies as truth.  White Nationalist seek the youth.  They seek young women who they can marry and have White babies with as they believe that they must have as many White babies as they can.  There is also a lot of abuse in White Nationalist homes, but not every White Nationalist is an abuser.  My Ex just happen to be one.  He was CI/White Nationalist.

I would say that you are making a good first step in coming here.  The parents section is a good thing.  I notice that this post is old, but just in case other parents are going through the same problem I hope that this will help.  Find out as much info as you can.  Is there a way to check out the sites that she has been going to?  Find out exactly what they are filling her mind with so you can fight with info to counter the White Nationalist info.

The most important thing to remember is to love your daughter and not judge her.  People respond better to honey.  Be patient, and just continue to expose your daughter to the truth and expose the White Nationalism as the big lie that it is.  White Nationalism hides behinds different masks.  They twist history to make it seem like our Founding Fathers were White Nationalists. 

I will end with this thought.  Most people who get sucked into White Nationalism, after a period of five years or so, start to wake up and leave.  It takes a strong person to leave because by the time you do wake up you have made true friends who  you love as family, and it is hard to leave them behind.  I know a lot of people who know that White Nationalism is a big lie, but they can't totally leave it behind because of the friends they made.  It takes a lot of courage to admit that you have been really stupid and made one of the biggest mistakes of your life and be willing to fight against the people who at one time you loved as friends, because you feel you have a moral duty to stand up and tell the truth so others will not be deceived into believing the White Nationalist lie.

[deedee]

My partner and I have chosen not to have children (well, children that aren't the fuzzy four legged kind), so I can't imagine what it must be like to have a child who becomes fascist. But I also have hope in people's capacity to change.

Where I live, the fascists frequently attract younger girls (in their teens) - mind you these are men in their 20s+ most of the time - so my guess is there is some "attraction to the rebel" on top of the exploitation of these girls (adult men dating teenage girls = predators in my view). I don't profess to know the answers, and as a non-parent, I rely on the expertise of those who are raising kids. But I think keeping love and communication lines open as much as possible is important, even when (especially when!) kids make poor choices.

In terms of the earlier discussion where the daughter was arguing with her parent, this doesn't always mean that a child 100% buys into what she is preaching. My oldest brother (who is several years younger than myself) used to argue with me non-stop about feminism, capitalism, racism, you name it. I found out later that he was actually taking my arguments (or perhaps the ones he found useful) and using them against our father (who is a police officer, and very dualistic and conservative in his thinking). If I had known this at the time, I would have been considerably less angry at my brother (who I worried was very authoritarian and fascist in his thinking; not the "white pride" variety, mind you, but very much pro-capitalist/pro-war/the state is always right/sexism doesn't exist, etc). This obviously doesn't apply to most situations, but it is a possibility.

 

[Laurie]

My youngest (19), always butted heads with me ,(we are almost exactly the same person on most levels), questioned absolutely everything.
 Even questioned the right  to try and stop the nazi's, "don't they have the right to believe what they do?"
Damn near drove to murder when she came up with that one!
I calmed down and asked her to listen to my reasoning, gave her crisp facts and papers to back up my reasoning.
Then I said think about it because I am not going  to argue, I will state my case and you decide if you agree or not...(she was about 15 and I was getting ready to go to Roanoke Va when this came up).
By the time I got home she stated, "I hate when you do that"....what?...."When you are right".
At some point our kids have to make their own choices, we just have to give them the tools to choose healthy, moral and decent values.
We can not and should not expect or force them to be copies of ourselves,have our exact morality or ethics.
With care and information they will refine the core values we teach into honed personal values.
Then we get strong and decent people to turn loose on society   or we get total knuckleheads that need reprogramming,(Just kidding on that last one...I think! )
Laurie